Vincent: On another note, I wanted to bring this up to you. Current event. So just today an MMA fighters union was formed. Did you hear about that?
Victor Pride: No I didn’t, Vincent.
Vincent: That just happened today.
Victor Pride: No. I didn’t hear about that. I was busy today.
Vincent: Mark Hunt, T.J. Dillashaw, Jose Aldo is in it. That’s huge.
Victor Pride: Wait, wait, wait. Back this up. I wasn’t even listening. A fighters union?
Victor Pride: A fighters union happened.
Vincent: Yeah. Just today. Just lunch. Jose Aldo is in it T.J. Dillashaw, Mark Hunt. And some of those old guys that were suing the UFC, Nate Quarry, some of those guys that left Cung Le of the fighters league and the fighters union is guys that have done the same thing for MLB, Major League Baseball, NFL, look at it almost as a joke, but look at who’s running it, and it’s going to make things very interesting for the UFC, just being sold by the Fertitta brothers to this new holding company, whatever it is, now the fighters union, that’s gonna ‑‑ that’s crazy. Talk about fighters pay. All the fighters want more money. Reebok was a stupid idea. All work like dorks. The outfits are dumb, they fuck up everything. Going to be interesting to see what happens with that.
Victor Pride: It’s Chung Li.
Vincent: (Laughing) Good response to all that.
Victor Pride: A fighters union. That’s interesting news. Okay. What’s next?
Vincent: (Laughing) But what do you think about that, though? Could potentially change all of UFC.
Victor Pride: Smart for the fighters to get benefits and payments that they should get in their twilight years. When they can no longer fight for money.
Vincent: Yeah. And you think about the fighter. This is something I’ve always found interesting. Fighting by far is the toughest sport in the world. No doubt about it. But the fighters seem to be, in my opinion, seem to be getting paid the least amount of all professional athletes.
Victor Pride: I don’t think it’s the hardest. How often do you compete as a fighter? Three times a year?
Vincent: It’s a different kind of compete, right? You play ten games in the NBA, you’re not going to get hurt.
Victor Pride: For 15 minutes though.
Vincent: Yeah. But that 15 minutes is like ‑‑ you play a basketball game for two hours, not going to get hurt. Maybe a sprained ankle. Get in a fight, probably going to get at least a three‑month medical suspension. Just on whatever. Something small
Victor Pride: Yes. They should have medical benefits too with this union.
Vincent: And you take a guy right at the beginning of his career. His martial arts career. Say first fight in the UFC, he’s probably getting, what, like 13 grand and 500 bucks from Reebok?
Victor Pride: Two or four grand if he’s a new guy.
Vincent: And the lift.
Victor Pride: Four and four.
Vincent: Yeah. Which is nothing. Right?
Victor Pride: And realistically, a young fighter shouldn’t be paid anything. That’s how you breed a hungry fighter. Don’t pay them nothing.
Vincent: That’s true. I think that’s a good point that people don’t talk about. I didn’t even think about it that way. But that’s right. It does make you hungry. But what about like some type of minimum base pay for the fighter. And I’m thinking about, take this guy, who’s new. Trains at Great Jackson. Big gym. Just as an example. The coaches fly out with him, four of them out there. Four and four, 4,000 to show up, 4,000 if he wins, that barely covers flight for the team, hotel and all of those expenses.
Victor Pride: Yeah. Tough life.
Vincent: It’s the hurt sport for sure. You get that NBA contract and you’re set. Don’t have to deal with any of that shit.
Victor Pride: The fighters should have tried out for the NBA then.
Vincent: (Laughing) The fighters union could stop that shit from happening.
Victor Pride: It could stop greatness too.
Vincent: Could get more talent, could get less people. Could be interesting. And Dana White is still president and managed by another group. It’s going to be interesting the changes that are going to be happening.
Victor Pride: Yeah. I hope they make it more entertaining.
Vincent: All right. No wrestling.
Victor Pride: In the sport? Can’t have the MMA without wrestling.
Vincent: Yeah. So how would you make MMA more entertaining?
Victor Pride: The back story. The back story, you see? Not the fight, the back story.
Vincent: The words are the weapons.
Victor Pride: The words. Fighters have to use the words like Muhammad Ali. Create the story and create fun. Like Connor McGregor. And Chael Sonnen. That’s two. That’s two out of how many? 500?
Vincent: Yeah. So those are top guys. Another guy?
Victor Pride: And that’s how you become a top guy. And you can ‑‑ here’s what you can do in the UFC specifically to get more top guys. What is another organization that we can look at that has physical guys who use their mouths? Professional wrestling. Professional wrestling build their characteristics up. They have to wrestle, they have to train, but they also have to learn how to speak and have to learn how to work the mic. And in the UFC, you have the same program, that teaches these guys how to talk on the mic. It’s a show. It’s a spectacle.
Vincent: That’s something you said that was really interesting a night ago that I want to bring up for the listeners. You said that the UFC is not a sport. It’s a spectacle. And I think you’re right. Because if it was a sport, like you said, Victor Pride said this. There would be brackets. But here it’s a spectacle because you take a guy like Chael Sonnen, back in his prime, he fought, I don’t remember the order of this, but he got a title shot for Anderson Silva and then he fought ‑‑ he lost, fought Jon Jones and he lost, he got a third title shot fighting Anderson Silva. No one can get three title shots in a row, lose them all without his showmanship. That’s what got him that. There’s nothing wrong with that ‑‑
Victor Pride: I have to correct you on the order. And wasn’t three in a row. Two in a row at most. And I have to correct the record on Chael Sonnen, my man. A bad wrap as a bad fighter and people look back on his career and say he wasn’t a good fighter. Who did he lose to? Anderson Silva. Jon Jones. Rashad Evans.
Vincent: I agree with you.
Victor Pride: These are not joke people. These are ‑‑ two of them are two of the three greatest every of all time.
Vincent: I think he’s great.
Victor Pride: And Evans is a much bigger man.
Victor Pride: Who else did he lose to? In five years. Demian Maia, who kills everybody.
Vincent: I want to make the point about what you were saying about how important it is to be able to be a showman like him. He’s a great fighter. Amazing. Ran through Brian Stann, who is a great fighter also but the fact ‑‑
Victor Pride: That was a dog fight. It was fun.
Vincent: Yeah. Like he commands his presence so strong that ‑‑ let’s just take a guy like Tyron Woodley. Right? Great fighter. Just knocked out Robbie Lawler first round.
Victor Pride: He’s a half of a fighter. Tyron Woodley is a half of a fighter. He’s not a full ‑‑
Vincent: Yeah. He doesn’t have that talk.
Victor Pride: Right. And because he doesn’t have that talk. When they put the microphone in his face, what did he say?
Vincent: I don’t remember. That’s the point.
Victor Pride: I don’t either. That’s the point.
Victor Pride: So what fight does he want? I don’t know. Who knows? He didn’t say it.
Vincent: It’s not a draw.
Victor Pride: He should have built it up. He should have built it up like professional wrestling. When a professional wrestler builds it up, what does he do? I want to thank my mom and my dad. He plays with the crowd. He toys with the crowd. He gives the crowd what they came for. Spectacle. MMA is not a sport. It’s a spectacle. If you’re only concentrating on the fighting part and not the entertainment part, you’re only half of a fighter. Because it is spectacle. It’s not a real sport.
Vincent: It’s an interesting way to look at it. It’s strange to categorize it. Wrestling isn’t a sport. It’s not real. It’s a full spectacle. But the UFC still isn’t a sport. Like you said, it’s not organized that way. It’s a strange competition in the realm of its own.
Victor Pride: It’s a competition of who is the best at speaking or who is the best at giving spectacle. That’s what it is. The fighters don’t see it for some reason.
Vincent: Like we were talking, the yin and yang.
Victor Pride: It’s a competition of spectacle. Yes, to be a full fighter, to complete your yin and yang, you have to be entertaining and good at fighting. You have to do both. The only way ‑‑ how do you be entertaining? Have entertaining fights? Sure. You have to speak, you have to use words. You have to use words that incite people to anger or to happiness or use words that thrill them or take the wind out of their sails. You have to toy with the audience. Because they want that. They came for that spectacle.
Vincent: Take a guy like Wonderboy. Right? He’s a good speaker. But I think his spectacle is just the way he moves.
Victor Pride: He’s spectacular in the way he moves and he’s spectacularly average in the way he speaks.
Vincent: But he’s still a big draw though. Do you disagree?
Victor Pride: I don’t know. I don’t own the UFC. But I don’t.
Vincent: That’s a goal for Mr. Pride?
Victor Pride: Yeah. $4 billion payday. Yeah.
Vincent: Yeah. The fight between Wonderboy and Robbie Lawler, I’m glad Tyron won and that’s great and all. But the fight between Robbie Lawler and Wonderboy would be fucking bananas. That would be probably one of the greatest fights that ever happened. That would be insane.
Victor Pride: I don’t know. I think if that fight would have happened, I think Robbie would have played it safe like he played it safe with Tyron and I think he would have gotten caught and knocked out first round.
Vincent: Damn. That’s a big claim. I don’t disagree with you either. If you look at what he did to Johny Hendricks?
Victor Pride: Yeah. But look at the way Robbie Lawler fought Tyron Woodley he didn’t fight like his usual, berserker self. He held back. He was ‑‑ what is that word we use when someone holds back and can’t pull the trigger?
Victor Pride: He was hesitant and that hesitation will get you killed against Tyron or against Wonderboy.
Vincent: He’s an interesting guy. Because I think ‑‑
Victor Pride: Who? Who’s an interesting guy?
Vincent: Robbie. We’re talking about Robbie. He’s really proved everything he can in the sport. He’s kind of in a weird spot. He started out by being cut by the organization, let go, whatever, fought in some other leagues. Comes back, starts winning, puts on the championship, gets it, he’s in an interesting spot.
Victor Pride: He’s in the losers spot. It’s not that interesting.
Vincent: And that’s what I’m trying to get to. If he retired ‑‑
Victor Pride: Robbie Lawler isn’t retiring. Robbie Lawler is addicted to fighting.
Vincent: No. I don’t think he would.
Victor Pride: Why would he?
Vincent: Retire on the one loss.
Victor Pride: On the knockout loss on your championship. Get real. He wants revenge. Robbie Lawler is a born fighter and he wants revenge. And he’ll have it.
Vincent: Hopefully against Wonder boy. He’s going to have that. Wonderboy against Woodley.
Victor Pride: I don’t know. It’s not that interesting of a fight.
Vincent: It’s not.
Victor Pride: To sell it to the crowd.
Vincent: It’s not at all.
Victor Pride: Only to sell it to the hardcore fans. And that’s not a good thing.
Vincent: No. Because you take that Ronda Rousey. People who had no idea what MMA is know Ronda Rousey. That’s why it’s so important to have those stars. So take something like what’s coming up in a few of days, Nate Diaz‑McGregor two, that’s another thing. If McGregor loses that fight, who does the UFC have as a star? Who’s their draw? Nobody. They don’t have a draw. McGregor is the UFC right now. That’s going to be quite interesting for the company too. Those are the people that they know. Ronda. McGregor. Ronda’s out. What’s going on with McGregor? He’s probably not going to fight at 145. He’s too big. Losing twice, he can talk all that shit, but it’s the yin‑yang. If he loses this fight, after talking so much shit to me, do you think people are going to believe him less or how is that going to affect him? Affect his brand?
Victor Pride: It was a long question to ask. Here’s the answer. If Conor McGregor loses the fight, the UFC doesn’t lose a star. He’s not going to die in that fight. He’s not going to stop becoming Conor McGregor, the momentum behind him, everything that he has going for him, everything, all of his past fights, all his interviews, freely available on the internet, that’s not going to go away if he loses that fight. He’s not going to stop being star if he loses that fight. He could be embarrassed. He could lose in an embarrassing way and lose fans and humiliate himself. He could lose in a noble way and gain fans and become a bigger star like Alexander Gustafsson versus Jon Jones. Alexander Gustafsson lost that fight. Clearly. But put up a good fight and became a star because of it. So just because Conor McGregor might lose is not going to stop making him a star. And if Nate Diaz wins and he wins in spectacular fashion, he’s going to become a gigantic star. A gigantic star.
Vincent: That’s true. There’s that opposite.
Victor Pride: They don’t want a close decision. They want ‑‑ what they truly want is a spectacular knockout by Conor McGregor in round two so you can set up fight three and make the most money any fight has ever made.
Vincent: Think they would do a third if Conor McGregor puts out Nate Diaz?
Victor Pride: They would have to be the target not to.
Vincent: There’s so many options for them. It’s crazy.
Victor Pride: I don’t mean right away. I mean in the career. Not right away. Three fights in a row would be stupid. That might even be a good idea. That’s never been done before. Ever. It’s a sensational idea actually. It’s crazy. It’s an outrageous idea. Probably a good idea.
Vincent: To look at a different example and why I was referencing him, if you look at the Ronda‑Holly fight, Holly fucked her up. She fought Holly’s fight in that one. And her star power didn’t die, but ‑‑ she’s not that invincible lady anymore. Kind of like Conor McGregor, the hope of the Irish, nobody thought he would lose. And then you lost that first one. I think if he gets the second lose, it’s going to be weird.
Victor Pride: Conor McGregor took his loss with nobility. Ronda took her loss like a bitch. There’s your difference. It’s how you accept your loss. It’s one of the things that makes you endearing to people. How do you accept your loss? Do you accept your loss like a man? They’ll cheer you. If you lose and you accept it like a man, they’ll stand up and cheer you. If you do it like Ronda, who covered her face with a pillow, like the little girl, she did it herself.
Vincent: I don’t want to laugh.
Victor Pride: Why? Why don’t you want to laugh? She covered her face like a little girl. It’s funny. That’s how she took a loss. The big, bad girl who was supposed to be starring in Roundhouse, beating up men, beat up by a little blonde girl and covered her face up with a pillow and cried. And that’s the story of Ronda.